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Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
137
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Posted - 2013.06.01 22:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
Cipher7 wrote: We should also do something nice for the Federation, to try to mend fences.
What? Like buy it a cake, as a way to say "Thanks for the extradition, sorry we invaded you."
There's really no way to make something positive out of this. Bio and writing |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
140
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Posted - 2013.06.03 14:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Merdaneth wrote:Che Biko wrote: This is my understanding of how these things work as well. Granted, I'm no legal expert, but so far I haven't heard anything that indicates this is legal.
Perhaps some legal experts on Gallente law can shed light on this issue. I am too unfamiliar with the system myself. For example, I find it highly odd that a legal system can sentence someone to 20-something life sentences. One should be more than enough for anyone.
Typically it'll work like this: Bob the suspect is charged with 20 different crimes, and goes to court. He is found guilty of all 20 of those crimes, and so the sentence reflects that. If each of those crimes carries a life sentence, then he may be sentenced to 20 consecutive life sentences. It seems like overkill, but it plays into parole guidelines, as well. Bio and writing |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
144
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nick Bete wrote:And to all of you who are so quick to want to break ties with the Minmatar consider this: How well do you think we would fare attempting to hold off the Amarr/Caldari alliance by ourselves if it came down to that? I'd much prefer to have those passionate Matari warriors fighting with me rather than against me if they were ultimately defeated by the Amarr and added to their ranks.
"My boyfriend beats me. I know it's wrong, but I'm so afraid of being alone..."
Nah, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Bio and writing |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
147
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Posted - 2013.06.04 06:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Oh, I couldn't agree with you more, Ms. Luftschreck... Bio and writing |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
148
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Posted - 2013.06.04 14:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sanadras Riahn wrote:Katran Luftschreck wrote:What will be really funny is when the press finds out that Maleatu Shakor ordered the invasion fleet. Will the Federation then demand that he be extradited for giving the orders that killed, what was it, ten thousand or so Federation Navy personelle?
It would be only fair, after all, and the precedent has just been set. I think the biggest difference lies in the target. Karin Midular was a Tribal Leader, which made her prominent in the government of the Minmatar Republic. The equivalence, I imagine, would be if a Minmatar were to shoot into a crowd of Gallente citizens visiting on Matar and killing President Roden. That, and the particulars of our judicial system are different than that of the Federation. I'd say that it's good to see them trying to repair the alliance that was strained not long ago between the two empires. I'm never going back to Gallente space unless required, mind you, but I do appreciate the gesture.
Ahhhh, and here it is in all it's naked glory: The fundamental belief within the Republic that justifies invading an ally and killing tens of thousands. The Republic was justified in sending in that fleet and killing all those people because Midular had been killed on Federation soil, yet the Federation should not object to those tens of thousands of deaths because they were not as important as Karin Midular. It sounds suspiciously like the philosophies espoused by certain Amarr. Bio and writing |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
154
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Posted - 2013.06.05 20:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sanadras Riahn wrote:Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:Ahhhh, and here it is in all it's naked glory: The fundamental belief within the Republic that justifies invading an ally and killing tens of thousands. The Republic was justified in sending in that fleet and killing all those people because Midular had been killed on Federation soil, yet the Federation should not object to those tens of thousands of deaths because they were not as important as Karin Midular. It sounds suspiciously like the philosophies espoused by certain Amarr. So... you missed everything about the comparison between a Tribal Leader and the President of the Federation, then?
Nah, I think you missed everything about the comparison between a Tribal Leader and a few tens of thousands of your supposed allies. Anyways, you should be ecstatic. The Republic gets Broteau, and Roden is evidently still interested in keeping the peace despite Shakor doing everything he can to demolish it. I tell you, if it were up to me the Republic would be sitting there wondering what happened to its only ally. Bio and writing |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
158
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Posted - 2013.06.06 14:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cipher7 wrote:Shintoko Akahoshi wrote: Nah, I think you missed everything about the comparison between a Tribal Leader and a few tens of thousands of your supposed allies. Anyways, you should be ecstatic. The Republic gets Broteau, and Roden is evidently still interested in keeping the peace despite Shakor doing everything he can to demolish it. I tell you, if it were up to me the Republic would be sitting there wondering what happened to its only ally.
It'll never be up to you. As long as Federation and Republic interests converge, there will always be an alliance. Crocodile tears of State loyalists notwithstanding.
See, this is the part about democracies that you don't really seem to understand. As a citizen of the Federation, I get a vote. So it really is up to me - and the rest of the voting population in the Federation. My occupation in the more... erm... mercenary professions notwithstanding. And in my view, the Republic's attack on the Federation explicitly means that the Federation and the Republic's interests do not converge.
But I suppose I shouldn't expect you to understand that.
Bio and writing |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
158
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 18:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
What can I say? I'm an equal-opportunity mercenary, I'll fly for pretty much whoever pays me.
In reality, though, I haven't flown in the Gallente-Caldari war zone in years. I'm mainly in this at the moment because it affords me the opportunity to shoot at the Republic Militia. The paycheck is just a fringe benefit.
But I'm glad that someone at least appreciates the irony of the situation. Bio and writing |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
164
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Posted - 2013.06.07 15:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cipher7 wrote:(Some stuff, mainly strawman arguments to discredit me)
Read up a bit. For the record, I'm killing Republic citizens, not Federation citizens.
In any case, I still don't think you understand the distinction. I don't know why I keep trying to get you to understand, probably boredom. It's really very simple, though:
I engage in CONCORD-authorized warfare on behalf of corporations in exchange for money. This is all perfectly legal, and goes through the proper channels. I do not hide the fact that my aim is to shoot at my targets - CONCORD legislates that I am prominently marked out as "hostile" in their overviews.
The Republic moved a fleet into Federation territory and opened fire on the Federation, an ally. This was done in violation of CONCORD law. No declaration of war was made on behalf of the Republic against the Federation - this was a sneak attack, a "blue on blue", if you would. The equivalent of your room-mate deciding that you've done them wrong and shooting you.
Surely you can understand the difference. Bio and writing |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
164
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 15:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
The first Republic incursion was an attempt to bring Midular back to a Republic hospital, wasn't it? I think that might be why Arsten says there was only one attempt to get Broteau. Bio and writing |
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Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
169
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Posted - 2013.06.08 17:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Gabriel Darkefyre wrote: It took the DED 48 Minutes to arrive on field from the time of the first shots being fired, I believe this was 16 Minutes after the fleet jumped into Colelie however I cannot find logs going further back than 20:04 on that day. In comparison, the DED was on the scene within 18 Minutes of the Minmatar Fleet jumping into Colelie during the first incident.
Almost an Hours difference in response time. Same System. Had the response time been consistent with the first incident, DED should have been on the field before the first Dreadnought was destroyed, perhaps even before the first shots were fired.
Well, half an hour's difference in response time, but I basically agree with you. Had CONCORD responded more rapidly, they may have been able to stop the incident.
At the same time, the real issue isn't that CONCORD didn't arrive to stop the Republic Fleet from opening fire on the Federation Navy. The real issue is that the Republic Fleet opened fire on the Federation Navy. Bio and writing |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
170
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mika Firestorm wrote:Shintoko Akahoshi wrote: At the same time, the real issue isn't that CONCORD didn't arrive to stop the Republic Fleet from opening fire on the Federation Navy. The real issue is that the Republic Fleet opened fire on the Federation Navy.
This isn't issue, really. Five years ago minmatars attacked CONCORD itself. That was an issue.
Let's be fair. It wasn't the Minmatar that attacked CONCORD, it was the Republic.
In any case, you're right to some extent: the real issue is that Shakor's Republic has acquired the habit of considering alliances and treaties as mere suggestions which can be ignored with no consequences. Though I suppose if there are no consequences - and really, what consequences have their been for either Colelie or Yulai - what does that say about the rest of us? Bio and writing |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
171
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Posted - 2013.06.10 06:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
Katarina Musana wrote: Hon, you're smarter than that. He said nothing about justification.
However, military actions against another military do fall under a different system than the actions of the man who killed Midular, because they are not civilians.
He didn't, no. He didn't have to. He stated that Broteau killing Midular was different (than Colelie) because she was a tribal leader. He added that the Republic judicial system is different than the Federation. He didn't say anything about justification, but he sure as hell implied it.
In any case, you're right about military actions against another military falling under a different system. Broteau killing Midular (and killing or harming all his other victims) is typically called things like "a terrible tragedy", while military actions against other militaries (especially allied militaries) are typically called "acts of war".
Oh, and please. Don't call me "hon". Especially if you're going to call the next three or four people you attempt to rebut the same thing. It cheapens it. Bio and writing |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
172
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Posted - 2013.06.10 19:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
In any case, it really sounds like we're both on the same page, here. You don't care for how the Federation treats the Republic and feel that the Republic would be better off without the Federation as an ally. I don't care for how the Republic treats the Federation, and feel that the Federation would be better off without the Republic as an ally. The nature of the relationship between the Federation and the Republic are certainly something that the various diplomats and politicians can work out, but I think we both agree that we'd rather they work it out in a manner that results in a cessation of the alliance. Bio and writing |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
172
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 17:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
And I rest my case. Bio and writing |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
174
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Posted - 2013.06.11 21:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Katarina Musana wrote:Regarding Shintoko's previous comments, I would add that I would be perfectly happy with an alliance with the Federation if they were to actually treat us as equals and treat the alliance as an actual alliance and not us just being a vassal state to be told what to do and how to do it.
Are you trying to argue that the Republic was justified in attacking the Federation because Shakor's feelings were hurt? I don't exactly have a high regard for the man, but that's a bit much for even me to accept. Bio and writing |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
177
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 03:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
Katarina Musana wrote:Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:Katarina Musana wrote:Regarding Shintoko's previous comments, I would add that I would be perfectly happy with an alliance with the Federation if they were to actually treat us as equals and treat the alliance as an actual alliance and not us just being a vassal state to be told what to do and how to do it. Are you trying to argue that the Republic was justified in attacking the Federation because Shakor's feelings were hurt? I don't exactly have a high regard for the man, but that's a bit much for even me to accept. So when are you going to give up on this rather tired ploy, Shintoko? How many times do I have to remind you that I have repeatedly said that none of this has anything to do with justification of Colelie.
I'll drop it. I don't think either of us is served by continuing to argue with one another. Bio and writing |
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